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Hawke

Administrator
Staff member
Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice on this one.
Speaking as someone who was 'Makad-ed' in his first senior game ... it taught me to keep my bat inside the crease .... but ... this is a lousy way to win a game .. and then be pleased and even proud that it had been done - see their captain's weasel words.

It is the sort of thing that an Aussie team of a certain era would have done ....... like bowling underarm at the end of a limited over match ... yes, that team.

Following that incident, the underarm was outlawed I think? It was OK in the Laws but they got changed so ..... how about ... no that won't happen because of the power base in the ICC.
oh dear...this one...I think the first responsibility of the batter backing up is not lift the bat from the crease until the ball is released...as Donnylad soon learned...
someone tweeted that the 3rd Umpire could routinely check this and call short run when necessary...I think it was Alison Mitchell...if proved successful you could then outlaw the ruse...not an option at anything below that level though...
obviously a very poor way to end a match
 

Karma

Well-known member
Alert , Ladies cricket.

Northern Diamonds beat Southern Vipers to take Rachel Heyhoe Flint Tropy over 50 overs at Lords.

Repeat of last week's game, same result and last ball finish could have gone either way

Well done, Trophy for up north! Nowt for South.
 

DaveMorton

Well-known member
Didn't Windies U19s win a World Cup with a Mankad? I have no problem with it at all. I didn't cheat, backing up, and I have no sympathy with batsmen who do. How many escape run out by the odd inch or two? But they have a yard start, sometimes two or three yards. And they do it every ball, especially at the death in the white-ball versions.

The batsman is the cheat, not the bowler.
 

Newby

Well-known member
Didn't Windies U19s win a World Cup with a Mankad? I have no problem with it at all. I didn't cheat, backing up, and I have no sympathy with batsmen who do. How many escape run out by the odd inch or two? But they have a yard start, sometimes two or three yards. And they do it every ball, especially at the death in the white-ball versions.

The batsman is the cheat, not the bowler.
Let us say it divides opinion.

I think it's a problem because it seems by far the larger proportion of bowlers would never, as they see it, sink so low as to use it, and the few who do are often reduced to pariah status.

Is the umpire able to fairly adjudicate on a Mankad in a match without television coverage and a third umpire? Perhaps if it's a yard or more, but surely not an inch or two if he/she is already concentrating on looking out for an LBW, nick, no ball etc.

In the West Indies U19 v Zimbabwe U19 game Keemo Paul just ran up and broke the stumps without getting into his delivery stride. There was nothing of the Zimbabwe players bat behind the line but it was very tight.

I would suggest part of the square leg umpire's duties should include looking out for and giving the non-striking batsman a warning if the backing up is noticeable, followed by the loss of a run or runs if the behaviour continues. It can be classed as cheating and trying to gain an advantage but often it's just plain dozy.
 

DaveMorton

Well-known member
It could only apply to 3rd umpire games, but now the no ball is being checked on screen, I would suggest that - the moment the bowler's foot lands - if the batsman's bat or foot is not also grounded behind the line, then it's a one-run penalty.

It has always said in the Laws that it is unfair play to attempt to steal a run during the bowler's run-up. If it's unfair to do it, how can it be unfair to run him out?
 

Karma

Well-known member
I hab joked about prsictivetext but after 1 years it's only NOW that I've figured out how to switch it on.Luddite!

Although historically, I liked to follow Tests I have lost interest this year, given that Yorkshire sometimes fought with one hand tied behind its back due to England calls.

I've looked at the first innings scorecard for the T20 v Pakistan to see how prospective players have performed. Malan scored 78 not out and Brook 46 n o in England's 209 - 3

Noticeably Harris Rauf didn't take any wickets but his 0 - 24 off 4 overs was the most economical by a long way. Could he be our 2nd foreign player at some time in 2023? He certainly seemed OK once he got used to conditions.and having to work hard.

Pakistan in reply are 41 - 3 off 7 overs with Masood on 13 off 13 balls, early days, hope he saves his performances for Yorkshire as he isn't there just to be captain. Willey so far most economical with 1 for 8 off 2 overs.

Update : 76 for 3 after 11.5 over, Masood 29 n o off 24 balls. Rawhide 0 for 19 off 3 overs. Can't remember when he last took a wicket, probably my memory rather than his performance, seems to be underperforming, needs more matches?
As I type he gets one , 86 for 4 off 22.2 overs, need 124 off 7.4 overs. Msood 33 n o off 25 balls
 
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Newby

Well-known member
Both Malan and Brook were dropped off relatively simple chances and it ended up being a very weak attempt at a chase by Pakistan.

Willey, Rauf, Rashid and Malan look like they were made for T20, Brook of course is all formats and I hope he stays that way.

England move on to Australia now to play the hosts in a 3-match series in preparation for the T20 world cup.

I was juggling watching and listening to the cricket, Leeds Utd and Towards the end, the RL Championship play off final. No shock win for Batley unfortunately so Leigh the favourites go through.

They will now be favourites to prop up the Super League and go back down next season, they should be used to it by now.
 

DaveMorton

Well-known member
I was researching non-grass pitches for my next article for Sedgley's match programme. Lots of clubs have the 3G pitch, which some incorrectly call a G4 - there is no such thing, I read. They seem to be horrific. There are many calls for them to be banned, players' safety being sacrificed for money. Some very strong words from the likes of Jack Nowell and Pat Lam, who are as far removed from wimpishness as it's possible to get.

At the top of the range (for all pitches) is the hybrid Desso GrassMaster, which is a real grass pitch with 20 million (!) polypropylene fibres added to it. Twickenham, Millennium Stadium, Ireland's Aviva are, with one exception, the only rugby grounds to have this rather expensive item. Also where soccer and rugby both play, such as Swansea and Huddersfield. Most of the top soccer clubs have them - both Manchesters, Leeds Utd, Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, etc. Plus Wembley, of course.

But the only dedicated rugby stadium in UK to have one, below that elite level, is Leigh Centurions! Apparently Man Utd use Leigh as a training ground, and there is amateur RL played on it as well.

Remember when Leeds RL led the world with their undersoil heating? Now, it's Leigh. I hope they stay up, if they go up. Presumably Toulouse are relegated?
 

Karma

Well-known member
'The Equator is an imaginary lion running round the circumference of the Earth'

That was one of the multiple-choice options from my 11-plus examination in 1960. I failed initially but was adjudged a borderline and after interview was 'lucky' enough to go to grammar school in York. It was a very good school (it was approved) and its most famous old boy was
Sir Vince Cable. Nothing to do with cricket and I didn't select the above option in my 11- plus.

Yesterday however there was a different line altogether and that may or may not have been crossed. It was in the Australia v England T20 when Aussie batter Wade stuck out an arm to prevent Mark Wood taking a return catch when the game was finely balanced. England captain Butler was asked why he didn't appeal and gave a bit of a wishy-washy answer to the effect that 'he didn't quite know what to appeal for mainly with several more games to go in the series, in essence, didn't want to incur the wrath of the Australian Public'

Now I've always believed that there are some things that are wrong, some are not allowed and some things that are 'over the line'. I've also believed that for years nobody, but the Aussie Team knew where the line actually was - and certainly not the Australian public.

I also believe that it can be somewhat outdated, unless a player appeals that the umpire cannot give a decision or ruling. Sure, they can signal wide, no-ball, bye, four or six etc but not normally if someone is out and without an appeal. In this case I don't actually know what, if any infringement was perpetrated by Wade. It's not football but if it were, it would be a foul, possibly leading to a red card. In cricket is there such a breach as 'ungentlemanly conduct' or obstruction. I am of course as always prepared to be corrected or educated

That apart, what on earth was our captain thinking? Why would you back down from complaining, appealing, just because you were afraid of the Australian public? If you're on top, put your boot on their throats. I'd be pretty confident if the cricket boot had been on the other foot the Aussies would have been outraged because they know where the line is. Or at least where they keep the sandpaper.
 

Donnylad

Well-known member
Yesterday however there was a different line altogether and that may or may not have been crossed. It was in the Australia v England T20 when Aussie batter Wade stuck out an arm to prevent Mark Wood taking a return catch when the game was finely balanced. England captain Butler was asked why he didn't appeal and gave a bit of a wishy-washy answer to the effect that 'he didn't quite know what to appeal for mainly with several more games to go in the series, in essence, didn't want to incur the wrath of the Australian Public'

Now I've always believed that there are some things that are wrong, some are not allowed and some things that are 'over the line'. I've also believed that for years nobody, but the Aussie Team knew where the line actually was - and certainly not the Australian public.

I also believe that it can be somewhat outdated, unless a player appeals that the umpire cannot give a decision or ruling. Sure, they can signal wide, no-ball, bye, four or six etc but not normally if someone is out and without an appeal. In this case I don't actually know what, if any infringement was perpetrated by Wade. It's not football but if it were, it would be a foul, possibly leading to a red card. In cricket is there such a breach as 'ungentlemanly conduct' or obstruction. I am of course as always prepared to be corrected or educated

That apart, what on earth was our captain thinking? Why would you back down from complaining, appealing, just because you were afraid of the Australian public? If you're on top, put your boot on their throats. I'd be pretty confident if the cricket boot had been on the other foot the Aussies would have been outraged because they know where the line is. Or at least where they keep the sandpaper.
A few days ago I was asked if I would Mankad and Aussie batter to win the Ashes. I said 'no'. I still think it is a rotten way to win a game.

However Wade has changed my opinion. The cheating so and so was obstructing the field and he knew it. So did just about everyone in the ground and watching. Buttler either doesn't know the laws or is a chicken at heart. The Aussie press and public do not need much of an excuse to give tourists a rough time and to do the same to Poms, even less of one. Poor captaincy. Mankad-ing is one thing, carrying out an action that breaks one of the Laws concerning dismissal is another. Perhaps if an Aussie, hits the ball twice or handles a ball he won't sanction an appeal for that .. might upset the natives. In which case we might as well not appeal for any of the other modes of dismissal.

The need to appeal comes from the very heart of the game - not to appeal isn't diplomacy. What would DBC have done?
 

Newby

Well-known member
Thank heavens Buttler isn't in charge of the England team in proper cricket. The arm out and the attempt to hold back Wood is pretty blatant and I think Wade would have been given out by any self respecting umpire.

Although he wasn't out and it was a nothing game in a nothing series, I hope the umpires and the match referee take some disciplinary action. Using confusion after a bang on the head as an excuse would probably only work with his immediate family, o.k, maybe just his Mum.

Interesting sponsor, 'The men's Dettol T20I series', Covid perhaps has given Dettol a higher profile and possibly excess profits to spends.
 

DaveMorton

Well-known member
This is an interesting area. I had lost interest in this game long before the incident. I actually switched off when Harry was out. But there are so many grey areas in cricket. I always used to run between the throw and the stumps, change my angle, if it was a tight one, and on my side of the wicket. That has now been outlawed. I often wondered what would happen if you threw your bat at the stumps and broke the wicket before the ball arrived.

I once saw a batsman (Jimmy Wilson, Glossop CC) go down screaming and holding his leg ("Oh my hamstring!"), when it was clear he wasn't going to make it. We ran him out anyway, and appealed, just to make sure. He managed to walk off without assistance. Jimmy was the sort of bloke who would have cheated at patience.

What about the high catch, the big top-edge caught & bowled for example? If you gave the catcher a nudge, that is clearly obstructing the field - and sounds something like what happened here - but what about a little remark about the catcher's ability, such as, "Come on, run, that useless (suitable noun) will never catch it!"?

These incidents are part of the folk lore of the game. They don't really matter in the long run. You appeal / don't appeal. It's given out / not given out. The Dominic Cork hit wicket! I think people just admired his cheek, rather than disapproved of his cheating, and there was no appeal, so it wasn't out anyway.
 

Newby

Well-known member
Good game for Dawid Malan today as England won the T20I series against Australia. It's cricket and it kept me company as I got stuck into a couple of shrubs that had outgrown their usefulness in the back garden.

Alex Lees I see has been given the bullet by England for the tour of Pakistan, no real surprise as he wasn't given any kind of England contract for next year and It's a bit of a no brainer to bring in Keaton Jennings.

Ben Duckett, Will Jacks and Liam Livingstone come into the squad. No place for a second spinner with Jacks and Livingstone to fill in as required. It looks like the days of the specialist spinner will soon join the specialist wicket keeper in the history books as far as England go.
 

Donnylad

Well-known member
I didn't think we would win that one. Aus brought their best bowlers and we out-bowled and out-fielded them.

Malan - the kind of innings that we want to see in a YCCC shirt ... all the time. The question is whether or not we will.
Can someone tell me how Stokes does it let alone keep his place? Poor again with the bat. Bowls the opening over .... moderate. Comes back later and cleans up Marsh. Doesn't bowl again.
 
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