ECB hearings
- Thread starter Donnylad
- Start date
I think Mr Water's is being very kind in his criticisms of Lord Patel presenting the good things achieved as well as the opportunities lost. Also the sacked employees for which I've yet to hear the-soon-to-be-ex-chair, apologise or even comment. A weak man lashing out!
If it was up to me I'd nominate Baroness Tanni Grey-Thomson to be the new chair, she's twice the man called Lord Patel
If it was up to me I'd nominate Baroness Tanni Grey-Thomson to be the new chair, she's twice the man called Lord Patel
DaveMorton
Well-known member
Just integrity would do, for a start. Someone who values other people.
Person of colour complains about racialism, bullying and how badly they've been treated by everyone . Left the team . Moved to a different continent Ghost written book explaining all and earning lots of money
Well isn't it funny that it's not about Mr Rafiq but the ginger one, Prince Harry and his wife Megan who I didn't realise was black until she mentioned it. I hope this doesn't sound racist (either consciously or unconsciously) because I'm not . I am however a bit bored with both stories , though I do share concerns where people have been bullied or subject to raciism. Does sacking individuals because they both defended the club for which they worked and asked for help, constitute bullying? Unfair dismissal certainly . Unlike Mr Rafiq who left because he was no longer good at his job. according to that report.
Moving forward we have the impending show trials for individuals in February/March and and also currently plea bargaining for YCCC's crimes, still presumably, by Lord Patel (just had a picture in my mind of a puppy rolling over on it's back hoping to have it's tummy tickled) . He's leaving the chair at the March AGM . Bit in The Times today confirming that YCCC's constitution doesn't require a member's election for his replacement and the new Chair can be nominated from the board of directors and ratified by the membership.
I'm particularly pleased to see in the Times article that Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson could be emerging as a front-runner. She was the only 2022 director candidate for whom I had no hesitation in giving my vote. I think she has a lot of good attributes and qualities for the position - well known and liked as a leading sports administrator , doesn't live in London ( but Stockton), has a proven track record as an athlete and obviously as she's been on board for months, will have some understanding of the problems facing the club. I don't want to show prejudice but she is not Yorkshire born (actually Welsh), it's the 21st century and although not the first anywhere surely it's time for a Welsh Chair . Oh and obviously she's a lady too and a cross-bench peer in the House of lords. I'd support her election
Well isn't it funny that it's not about Mr Rafiq but the ginger one, Prince Harry and his wife Megan who I didn't realise was black until she mentioned it. I hope this doesn't sound racist (either consciously or unconsciously) because I'm not . I am however a bit bored with both stories , though I do share concerns where people have been bullied or subject to raciism. Does sacking individuals because they both defended the club for which they worked and asked for help, constitute bullying? Unfair dismissal certainly . Unlike Mr Rafiq who left because he was no longer good at his job. according to that report.
Moving forward we have the impending show trials for individuals in February/March and and also currently plea bargaining for YCCC's crimes, still presumably, by Lord Patel (just had a picture in my mind of a puppy rolling over on it's back hoping to have it's tummy tickled) . He's leaving the chair at the March AGM . Bit in The Times today confirming that YCCC's constitution doesn't require a member's election for his replacement and the new Chair can be nominated from the board of directors and ratified by the membership.
I'm particularly pleased to see in the Times article that Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson could be emerging as a front-runner. She was the only 2022 director candidate for whom I had no hesitation in giving my vote. I think she has a lot of good attributes and qualities for the position - well known and liked as a leading sports administrator , doesn't live in London ( but Stockton), has a proven track record as an athlete and obviously as she's been on board for months, will have some understanding of the problems facing the club. I don't want to show prejudice but she is not Yorkshire born (actually Welsh), it's the 21st century and although not the first anywhere surely it's time for a Welsh Chair . Oh and obviously she's a lady too and a cross-bench peer in the House of lords. I'd support her election
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yes it is a concern that they could be 'show trials'
So, Matthew Hoggard, Tim Bresnan and John Blain have also now withdrawn from taking part in the ' trials'.
Previously Andrew Gale who as far as I can remember has not been charged with racism involving Rafiq had said he wanted nothing to do with it either.
Not the same thing but the previous Chair at YCCC, a lawyer, said words to the effect that it was a flawed process in which he had no faith. I've lost track of the remaining 'defendants' apart from 'the club' and Michael Vaughan , who in this latter case, is determined to defend himself, particularly as a previously withheld statement (from Shazad ) seemed to indicate it wasn't actually Michael who said anything (and also claimed Adil Rashid had been pressurised into supporting Rafiq's claims) .
This all seems to add up to a waste of time, I just have a vision of a tug-of-war match . In this case there's only one 'team' on one side of the rope, pulling at fresh air and falling on their bottoms . However if nobody is available to be punished , all the punishment could fall on Yorkshire County Cricket Club. Most unsatisfactory . I'm probably missing something, like evidence.
Previously Andrew Gale who as far as I can remember has not been charged with racism involving Rafiq had said he wanted nothing to do with it either.
Not the same thing but the previous Chair at YCCC, a lawyer, said words to the effect that it was a flawed process in which he had no faith. I've lost track of the remaining 'defendants' apart from 'the club' and Michael Vaughan , who in this latter case, is determined to defend himself, particularly as a previously withheld statement (from Shazad ) seemed to indicate it wasn't actually Michael who said anything (and also claimed Adil Rashid had been pressurised into supporting Rafiq's claims) .
This all seems to add up to a waste of time, I just have a vision of a tug-of-war match . In this case there's only one 'team' on one side of the rope, pulling at fresh air and falling on their bottoms . However if nobody is available to be punished , all the punishment could fall on Yorkshire County Cricket Club. Most unsatisfactory . I'm probably missing something, like evidence.
Good for them. The current process is a joke.
Ok, I have my own bias and I don't believe much of what AR said, though I would perhaps attribute it to a form of coping mechanism after a tragedy rather than malice.
But the process is a joke. There was an enquiry, and most of AR's claims were unproven, yet we are where we are. I would fully support an independent, preferably judge led, enquiry. If I'm wrong and AR's claims are correct, I would accept that. But the current mess led by the ECB will only perpetuate the current feelings on both sides - the result is a forgone conclusion. If they wanted to be fair, they could have handed over the evidence in 2021.
For me, the only question left is whether we go for a truth and reconciliation process - i.e. everyone can admit what they did, openly without coercion and without fear of repercussions, and we build a better future, or we have an independent enquiry that the ECB is investigated in as a co-defendant. One defendant investigating another with these power imbalances is laughable.
Ok, I have my own bias and I don't believe much of what AR said, though I would perhaps attribute it to a form of coping mechanism after a tragedy rather than malice.
But the process is a joke. There was an enquiry, and most of AR's claims were unproven, yet we are where we are. I would fully support an independent, preferably judge led, enquiry. If I'm wrong and AR's claims are correct, I would accept that. But the current mess led by the ECB will only perpetuate the current feelings on both sides - the result is a forgone conclusion. If they wanted to be fair, they could have handed over the evidence in 2021.
For me, the only question left is whether we go for a truth and reconciliation process - i.e. everyone can admit what they did, openly without coercion and without fear of repercussions, and we build a better future, or we have an independent enquiry that the ECB is investigated in as a co-defendant. One defendant investigating another with these power imbalances is laughable.
Of course the cases go ahead without the 'defendants'. It will be interesting to see what transpires with Vaughan and Pyrah. Vaughan has a career to defend as well. Pyrah, I heard on good authority, was offered a job as a county bowling coach, but has turned his back on the game and now has employment outside it through a cricket contact.
Yes I can see why the players who have dropped out feel the times and climes are against them and it is a foregone conclusion.......
Dressing room culture must be seriously competitive and also laddishly jokey. I suspect people are being mis-quoted and totally our of context and for a reason. At some cost and mess.........At least going forward all cricketers of all races will be very careful what they say and how they say it.
Yes I can see why the players who have dropped out feel the times and climes are against them and it is a foregone conclusion.......
Dressing room culture must be seriously competitive and also laddishly jokey. I suspect people are being mis-quoted and totally our of context and for a reason. At some cost and mess.........At least going forward all cricketers of all races will be very careful what they say and how they say it.
The longer this farce drags on the more it seems that it is being stage managed by the ECB. Something along the lines of:
Let's keep this going by throwing wood and any other flammable materials on the headline Yorkshire fire, while we conserve our water to deal quietly with any other outbreaks that may implicate us. Essex for instance!
In terms of dressing room culture we may be close to the improvement throughout the game that people have been calling for.
Some may consider throwing a couple of ex Yorkshire players on the fire to help achieve that aim is fair enough.
I'm not sure they will stop there. They may feel they have to throw Yorkshires cricketing ambitions for next season on the fire as well, by issuing an eye watering (and headline grabbing) points deduction in all competitions.
Possibly one already agreed behind closed doors by the Yorkshire management led by LP.
byased
Active member
Most of the allegations do seem to come back to dressing room culture. It has always been a potentially cruel place to be, but also a fun one, and something that generally brings people together. I guess a lot of "banter" is now off limits, and perhaps that is a good thing. Making criminals out of people who may or may not have said something as a joke 20 years ago just seems pathetic. I agree with pretty much everything Matthew Hoggard has said. I wonder how many of the politicians/ECB people etc, have actually played any decent level of sport, in which case they should understand how it was in dressing rooms. Rafiq was very much part of that, and probably gave as good as he got. he just turned out to be not quite good enough as a player.
If the allegation is that cricket is institutionally racist, then Yorkshire should not suffer any more than they already have. ECB have their own agenda it seems, and so who knows what the outcome will be. Dressing rooms may be a little kinder in future, maybe less fun, but times do change so I would go along with some changes in that direction. If players then choose to ignore guidelines then they will have no defence. there were no guidelines to follow 20 years ago, or 120 years ago for that matter.
If the allegation is that cricket is institutionally racist, then Yorkshire should not suffer any more than they already have. ECB have their own agenda it seems, and so who knows what the outcome will be. Dressing rooms may be a little kinder in future, maybe less fun, but times do change so I would go along with some changes in that direction. If players then choose to ignore guidelines then they will have no defence. there were no guidelines to follow 20 years ago, or 120 years ago for that matter.
There are a couple of items behind paywalls. I rmust have read the Tim Bresnan one before the wall went up! He just thinks that Azeem Rafiq and his team 'own the agenda' helped by George Dobell and that the ECB will not dare look at the matter impartially. There have been a couple of pieces in the YP recently about Ajmal Shazad which seem to re-iterate support for Michael Vaughan.
Sir Geoffrey
New member
It's the one thing that stands out, usually when something blows up there's a queue of victims throwing their two penneth in for various reasons, however apart from AR there's no other accusations coming forward unless I've missed something.
DaveMorton
Well-known member
Alleged victim. Not proven (either way) because of the flawed legal process, which is what we're moaning about. Those who feel victimised must have a right to complain, and be heard; but then those complained against must also have a right to defend themselves, which they haven't been given.
A couple of notices on the club website about the forthcoming CDC hearing. The two Yorkshire co-chairman seem pretty pleased with themselves that they have been able to negotiate the charges down from the original 6, to 4 newly worded ones that they have pleaded guilty to.
Their attendance at the CDC is now merely to plead their case for a 'reasonable sanction'. They don't let us into what they feel a reasonable sanction might look like.
Rich Pyrah has also withdrawn himself from the process so that just leaves Michael Vaughan on his own to defend himself. I'm sure he has good representation. It really just seems to be the 'too many of you lot' remark they are holding against him and that seems to have changed ownership.
Looks like the date of the hearings 1-9 March are pretty much set in stone, when they will give their ruling is anybody's guess. Before the first ball of the 2023 season is bowled I hope.
I'm hanging on to my membership money until I know whether we have anything to play for next season or not.
Their attendance at the CDC is now merely to plead their case for a 'reasonable sanction'. They don't let us into what they feel a reasonable sanction might look like.
Rich Pyrah has also withdrawn himself from the process so that just leaves Michael Vaughan on his own to defend himself. I'm sure he has good representation. It really just seems to be the 'too many of you lot' remark they are holding against him and that seems to have changed ownership.
Looks like the date of the hearings 1-9 March are pretty much set in stone, when they will give their ruling is anybody's guess. Before the first ball of the 2023 season is bowled I hope.
I'm hanging on to my membership money until I know whether we have anything to play for next season or not.
And Michael Vaughan's expensive lawyers might ask well be p*****g in the wind if they think that the public broadcast of cross--examining Adil Rashid will have impact . The ECB refuse to fly Rashid back because it costs too much. Unbelievable. Or rather it is, loaded dice, rough justice, Kangaroo Court but just plain wrong and they should be ashamed.
Isn't there anything more they can do to ensure Vaughan is convicted, short of producing a recording of the incident? And I wouldn't put that beyond their power.
Isn't there anything more they can do to ensure Vaughan is convicted, short of producing a recording of the incident? And I wouldn't put that beyond their power.
byased
Active member
He must have been a victim. Otherwise he would have gone on to captain England for many years, won a long jump medal at the Olympics, and become Minister for Overseas Development in his spare time.