ECB hearings

[Karma]

Cases were originally set to be heard in November, then early in 2023. Now defendants being asked if they are free in February or March ( and they haven't even decided if these are public or 'in private' trials)

" I can hear the grass grow"

Well this is not about sport but here's my Christmas quiz question :

Who or What is the connection between the above horticultural statement and a perennial every day statement you'll hear a lot this time of year?" I've set it on that other place too( but with an easier clue) . You don't need to be a wizard to get it

 

[Newby]

Is it not Roy Wood of which you speak! Though I personally don't wish it could be Christmas every day.

 

[Karma]

Is it not Roy Wood of which you speak! Though I personally don't wish it could be Christmas every day.

Well done. First saw 'I can hear the grass grow' live by The Move on 1967 at York Railway Institute. I think the said Wood should have been able to retire long ago on royalties for 'Christmas' . I agree not every day keep it special.

 

[Sir Geoffrey]

Roy Wood, once bumped into him down the Garden Tool aisle in Homebase @ Kings Norton, a bizarre moment on a particularly dull day as I recall.

 

[Karma]

Roy Wood, once bumped into him down the Garden Tool aisle in Homebase @ Kings Norton, a bizarre moment on a particularly dull day as I recall.

Presumably he'd come into Homebase to get a lawnmower as the grass was growing
(he could hear it).

 

[Sir Geoffrey]

Secateurs I think, for his Blackberry way

 

[Karma]

Secateurs? That's pretty sharp and so are they. Dangerous in fact.I hope he didn't have them in his hand when he ran to get the fire brigade

 

[Karma]

Especially when he'd been cutting some flowers in the rain

 

[Hawke]

Roy Wood, once bumped into him down the Garden Tool aisle in Homebase @ Kings Norton, a bizarre moment on a particularly dull day as I recall.

Very interesting first post Sir Geoffrey. Welcome to the site.

 

[DaveMorton]

'Appen someone will explain to me what this is all about! I know not this Roy Wood, of whom ye speak, though I do know what secateurs are, if that helps.

 

[Karma]

'Appen someone will explain to me what this is all about! I know not this Roy Wood, of whom ye speak, though I do know what secateurs are, if that helps.

I'm sorry Dave Morton I went off at a bit of a tangent and although my post started off cricket related it finished elsewhere. I will explain

I started by referring to the fact that the time for (ECB) charges against defendants to be formally investigated is yet again slipping further away and as I've previously referred to 'long grass' ie as 'kicking it into' thought I'd allude to this by the phrase:

" I can hear the grass grow"

This actually was a song written and recorded by Mr Roy Wood when he was a member of a group called The Move in 1967. I thought as we're coming up to Christmas I'd try a Christmassy quiz question for a bit of fun , linking it to a song that now comes round every Christmas with the chorus and to which I alluded

" I wish it could be Christmas every day"

This a song written and recorded by the same Roy Wood in 1987 ( in this case with his then latest band Wizzard).

The rest is history and we had the introduction and welcome of new Corridor member 'Sir Geoffrey' who had met Roy Wood at a Homebase where Roy was buying secateurs for his blackberries ( alluding to another Roy Wood song 'Blackberry Way')

 

[DaveMorton]

I had just moved to Manchester then, and I was a keen attendee at several of the folk clubs in the area, but by 1967 pop music had passed me by for ever.

 

[Newby]

You got me thinking DM, trying to work out when I too lost my interest in pop music. I think I've pinned it down to about 1982 when I would have been mid 30's.

Sad to hear this week of the death of Terry Hall of the specials, they were 79/80 and I was certainly still interested then.

'Rudy, a Message to you' and 'Ghost Town' I still like to listen to occasionally.

(Music's taken over due to nothing happening at the ECB)

 

[byased]

I still like all forms of music. I admire people who can create an art form that lasts. Most people can be taught to hit a ball or whatever, but playing an instrument seems much more difficult. It is for me anyway.
I liked The Specials, and in fact their album released two or three years ago, Encore, was their best in my opinion. Shame about Terry Hall, but he had an exciting life, quality not quantity i always say. He had a trial with the Baggies apparently when he was a lad. Our loss was music's gain.

 

[Karma]

You got me thinking DM, trying to work out when I too lost my interest in pop music. I think I've pinned it down to about 1982 when I would have been mid 30's.

Sad to hear this week of the death of Terry Hall of the specials, they were 79/80 and I was certainly still interested then.

'Rudy, a Message to you' and 'Ghost Town' I still like to listen to occasionally.

(Music's taken over due to nothing happening at the ECB)

In fact sad to hear of the death of Terry Hall I think at the age of 63

"Much too Young" RIP

 

[Karma]

It seems the hearings will be in public which is not what Vaughan and Hoggard wanted. This is what Mr Rafiq wanted or else he threatened to not show up. Those who shout longest and loudest ( and have plenty of backers, money, a book coming out and good PR) tend to get their own way.

 

[DaveMorton]

I cannot see how anyone who thinks he is in the right can oppose openness. If Vaughan or Hoggard, or Rafiq for that matter, think they are being wrongly accused or quoted, or are not being given a chance to defend themselves, they can stand up and say so. If they are not allowed to say so, everyone will see they are being gagged.

If the meeting is not conducted properly, everyone will see that.

Have I missed the point, somewhere?

 

[Hawke]

I cannot see how anyone who thinks he is in the right can oppose openness. If Vaughan or Hoggard, or Rafiq for that matter, think they are being wrongly accused or quoted, or are not being given a chance to defend themselves, they can stand up and say so. If they are not allowed to say so, everyone will see they are being gagged.

If the meeting is not conducted properly, everyone will see that.

Have I missed the point, somewhere?

That is a strong point. I had thought Vaughan was prepared for a public enquiry so the latest report confuses me.
I suspect that the others don't have the financial and legal clout which is behind Rafiq nor his experience at performing in public, for which I suspect he was massively massively prepared. In other words their case may be strong but their presentation not. They may also read the tea leaves about the political and social climate, anticipating that the hearing will be hostile to them. Hoggard has said that he was asked for a private apology for an alleged remark and gave it. He did not anticipate that the requested apology would result in a public enquiry that may be on the WWW.

 

[Karma]

I cannot see how anyone who thinks he is in the right can oppose openness. If Vaughan or Hoggard, or Rafiq for that matter, think they are being wrongly accused or quoted, or are not being given a chance to defend themselves, they can stand up and say so. If they are not allowed to say so, everyone will see they are being gagged.

If the meeting is not conducted properly, everyone will see that.

Have I missed the point, somewhere?

Well at the fear of repeating myself, it is often difficult to prove that you didn't do or in Vaughan's case, say something in the same way that it is difficult for Lord Patel to prove he wasn't told to F*** O** by Stokes when he asked to pose for a photograph.( for fairness Lord has denied what Stokes said.)

The momentum and slick presentation, is all with Mr Rafiq. He has a well resourced legal team. His previous allegations just seemed to go unchallenged and of course televised Select Committee statements ( not evidence as some have said) by Mr. Rafiq are hard to subsequently dis-prove. They seem to become fact when actually they are not. It seems that style tends to win over substance. Hawke makes a very important point about the 'hearing' being hostile to them. I also feel that anyone offering evidence or a witness statement against Mr Rafiq's assertions is in danger of being condemned by the tide of PC public opinion and as lord P implies 'are part of the problem' . Not quite McCarthyism but almost.

 

[Newby]

If the hearings are held in the open then I don't see how we can get any closer to the truth, or to putting the issue to bed.

Michael Vaughan for instance would be a fool to do anything other than to keep denying he said what it is claimed that he said in an open forum and I don't see how that gets us anywhere. Some will believe one side and others will have the contrary view just as we have now.

George Dobell had a neat trick at the last DCMS hearing when referring to the press reports of wrong doing by Azeem Rafiq. He put his hand on a dossier he had with him and said 'these allegations have since been proved to be untrue'. Intimating he had overwhelming evidence to that effect, but nobody asked to see that evidence whatever it was, it was just taken as a fact.

I fear too much will be taken as fact if the hearings are open and the reporting is instant. I would much prefer a hopefully full and forensic analysis of the evidence by the committee in private followed by a full and open report.

'Did you then, or have you ever uttered a racist remark' is the kind of question I for one wouldn't like to answer with a plain yes or no.