ECB hearings

Karma

Well-known member
initial sympathy with Rafiq seems to be waning. I think I tend to go along with that.

Agree, I've always had some sympathy for Mr Rafiq. An extremely talented cricketer whose promise came to little I think because he is also an extremely flawed person, as evidenced by some of his actions. I do not however believe it right to paint a black picture of somebody as a way of deflecting away from any injustice to which they have been subject.

Being a person of colour has historically led to predjudice in his case through many aspects of his life, not just cricket but increasingly less typicaly so nowadays.

He has had a very professional team supporting him in his campaign and many have bent over backwards to help him achieve his aims, so much so that those against whom charges have been made seem not to get a fair hearing.
 

Hawke

Administrator
Staff member
We do not actually know if AzR has been subjected to racism at YCCC. He may have been.....as I wrote recently.

But given that LP has effectively gagged those accused by sacking and paying them off, a calculated plan from the beginning I now assume, the first alternative form of defence is for the media, and they are not newspapers I would normally read, to point out the flaws in the character of the person making the accusations to indicate that the evidence he puts forward may be as flawed. Can he be trusted? There must be doubts about this.

There are other comments out there, perhaps more general, such as by Is D, a person I have met and liked, that may actually be more concerning.

But yes I am not sure, in the current political and cultural climate, that the 'defendants' will have a fair hearing. I think that is very doubtful. Indeed Az R's team will have endless monies to prepare him and their case.
 

byased

Active member
I have no doubt he had some comments made to him, possibly in jest, possibly not. It does, however, seem he was given some opportunities at Yorkshire and England level but did not make the most of them. Most significant thing to me is that no other county came in for him. My personal view is that he was a decent cricketer, but nothing special. I think i have mentioned my son played against him at county level, probably under 15 or 16. It seemed there were a few unpleasant characters in the Yorkshire team at that time, but Rafiq was the most unpleasant. Sometimes you reap what you sow. A more rounded and normal hearing should take place, but Gale and others feel they will not be treated properly, which is an indictment on those overseeing this whole process.
 

Karma

Well-known member
I agree with all you both say byased and Hawke. The case is still outstanding whether there was racism directly aimed at him while playing for Yorkshire.

I have spoken to a number of people from the Barnsley area who knew him while playing cricket in the area. They have commented upon his insulting and sometimes foul-mouthed language , fatshaming and homophobic language and aggressive stance against some decisions.

We've all suffered prejudice throughout our lives, I came from a council estate and went to grammar school so you can imagine what I was called , didn't make me bitter though. Socially I can tell when people don't like my broad accent. Doesn't bother me now. Sometimes people were joking and I took it as a joke. Personally I am colour blind both my vision and how I view people from different ethnic backgrounds. I didn't realise Megan Markle was black until she kept banging on about it.

I think when Mr. Rafiq left Yorkshire, twice, his reputation as well as his fall off in cricketing standards and performance preceded him and he was not employable in 1st class cricket even though , living in South Yorkshire was a good place to be for turning out for adjacent counties, Derbyshire, Notts Leicester etc That's nothing to do with Yorkshire

I am still of the firm opinion that the charges will come to nought because Mr. Rafiq is behaving like a baby , making unreasonable demands on how the investigation and evidence will proceed. He is not judge and jury though he would like to be
 

DaveMorton

Well-known member
Surely the whole point is that there has not, at any stage, been any procedure which even approximates to a court of law. Rafiq has complained, and I have no doubt whatsoever that he has suffered racist abuse during his life. In the broadest sense, who hasn't? Others have gleefully taken up his cause. The result is that YCCC and several of its employees have been treated as guilty, and have suffered punishment in fact, if not in word.

There is also the unfortunate result, that the case will have hardened attitudes amongst those who are predisposed to prejudice in the first place. Rafiq has been used as a tool by people with 'agendas'; even with racist agendas, is my point.
 

Newby

Well-known member
I think I've lost count of the number of racism and cultural issues raised in the last few days alone, including the racist and misogynistic culture of the fire brigade, Gwent police, Met police, the submarine service, and even a medical museum closing because historical photographs showing white medical missionaries are now deemed as inappropriate. There are probably many more, I've been spending more time than usual listening to football so I may well have missed a few.

These issues come and go, perhaps to most people the Rafiq issue has come and gone, and we gallant few to whom Yorkshire cricket means so much, not forgetting of course those who have lost their jobs and reputations, are the only ones really interested.

I suspect the driver of the issue, as far as the media is concerned is no longer the fate of Azeem Rafiq himself, but whether they can get a further mileage out of the issue, in regard to pinning something on some familiar names such as Michael Vaughan, Tim Bresnan, Matthew Hoggard and Gary Ballance.
 

Karma

Well-known member
So one old ladies' clumsy dialogue with a person of colour and guess what ?

Yep, the person of colour, who is the Head of a charity, immediately gets in touch with the media to label an organisation 'Institutionally Racist' based upon that brief conversation. The organisation? The British Royal family.

Where's the charity or sense of proportion in this?

When I meet people at cricket matches I sometimes ask where they are from, often saying 'have you come far?' If that person was wearing a kilt, tam-o-shanter, sporran and playing the bagpipes I would draw the conclusion they were Scottish. If they said they were from Wales , I would probably say, 'No, go on, where are you actually from?'

The lady who made the 'Institutionally Racist' accusation was born in this country, of West Indian parents, is British , but was wearing as far as I can tell a traditional Afro-Caribbean costume and hairstyle.

This is ridiculous

So is calling YCCC 'Institutionally Racist' based upon a few encounters with a minority of individuals from YCCC and where the chief witness is one individual.

Edit : to clarify, the conversation took place at the new Queen's reception at which 83 year old royal aide, Lady Susan Hussey was speaking to 61 year old Ngozi Fulani the leader of Sista Space , a charity which deals with domestic violence on ladies from Africa.

After Fulani shared the exchange on-line , Lady Hussey resigned from her career of 62 years. Later Fulani said "I am all about positive solutions" Really?
 
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Newby

Well-known member
So one old ladies' clumsy dialogue with a person of colour and guess what ?

Yep, the person of colour, who is the Head of a charity, immediately gets in touch with the media to label an organisation 'Institutionally Racist' based upon that brief conversation. The organisation? The British Royal family.

Where's the charity or sense of proportion in this?

When I meet people at cricket matches I sometimes ask where they are from, often saying 'have you come far?' If that person was wearing a kilt, tam-o-shanter, sporran and playing the bagpipes I would draw the conclusion they were Scottish. If they said they were from Wales , I would probably say, 'No, go on, where are you actually from?'

The lady who made the 'Institutionally Racist' accusation was born in this country, of West Indian parents, is British , but was wearing as far as I can tell a traditional Afro-Caribbean costume and hairstyle.

This is ridiculous

So is calling YCCC 'Institutionally Racist' based upon a few encounters with a minority of individuals from YCCC and where the chief witness is one individual.

Edit : to clarify, the conversation took place at the new Queen's reception at which 83 year old royal aide, Lady Susan Hussey was speaking to 61 year old Ngozi Fulani the leader of Sista Space , a charity which deals with domestic violence on ladies from Africa.

After Fulani shared the exchange on-line , Lady Hussey resigned from her career of 62 years. Later Fulani said "I am all about positive solutions" Really?
Extremely difficult situation. I think the Royal family are going to need to grow a very thick skin in the coming years.

I can see why they want to get involved in 'issues' in order to show they are still relevant to society. Personally, I think they would be better advised to stick to the ceremonial.

As for YCCC being institutionally racist, unfortunately the buffoon acting as chairman at the time thought it was a good idea to tell everybody that it was.
 

Hawke

Administrator
Staff member
Extremely difficult situation. I think the Royal family are going to need to grow a very thick skin in the coming years.

I can see why they want to get involved in 'issues' in order to show they are still relevant to society. Personally, I think they would be better advised to stick to the ceremonial.

As for YCCC being institutionally racist, unfortunately the buffoon acting as chairman at the time thought it was a good idea to tell everybody that it was.
I met Roger H's dad, Robin, a few years back, to chat about cricket in Fulneck, where dad's first cousin, Leonard, grew up. Robin and Leonard were 'confirmed' in the Moravian faith at the same ceremony at Fulneck. I suspect Roger H is a decent sort who never ever expected to be embroiled in this mess and was overwhelmed by it, caving in under the one-sided inquisition. Yes a huge, huge shame he did.
 

Hawke

Administrator
Staff member
So one old ladies' clumsy dialogue with a person of colour and guess what ?

Yep, the person of colour, who is the Head of a charity, immediately gets in touch with the media to label an organisation 'Institutionally Racist' based upon that brief conversation. The organisation? The British Royal family.

Where's the charity or sense of proportion in this?

When I meet people at cricket matches I sometimes ask where they are from, often saying 'have you come far?' If that person was wearing a kilt, tam-o-shanter, sporran and playing the bagpipes I would draw the conclusion they were Scottish. If they said they were from Wales , I would probably say, 'No, go on, where are you actually from?'

The lady who made the 'Institutionally Racist' accusation was born in this country, of West Indian parents, is British , but was wearing as far as I can tell a traditional Afro-Caribbean costume and hairstyle.

This is ridiculous

So is calling YCCC 'Institutionally Racist' based upon a few encounters with a minority of individuals from YCCC and where the chief witness is one individual.

Edit : to clarify, the conversation took place at the new Queen's reception at which 83 year old royal aide, Lady Susan Hussey was speaking to 61 year old Ngozi Fulani the leader of Sista Space , a charity which deals with domestic violence on ladies from Africa.

After Fulani shared the exchange on-line , Lady Hussey resigned from her career of 62 years. Later Fulani said "I am all about positive solutions" Really?
Yes 'Institutionally Racist' is the description of the decade, used as the ultimate criticism of organisations. The most damning judgment that can be made.
And is it too easily made? And is it made by people with vested interests? Various equality groups seem to be making the judgment or reviews chaired by people from ethnic minorities. If they don't make that judgment are they saying they are effectively not needed?? Perhaps future historians will look back on this time and criticise such widespread judgments.
It is hard, too hard, to know what to make of each decision. I like to think the best of people and am very wary of their organisations being thus damned.
Indeed, it is easy to go on Twitter, be believed because of your background, and ruin someone's reputation and standing.
 

Newby

Well-known member
I may have been a little harsh there, but of course we lost the previous Chairman Steve Denison, to an accounting scandal, involving BHS and not YCCC, through his work at PWC. I can't remember the detailed timings, but Roger Hutton was rather thrown in at the deep end and I'm sure now wishes he hadn't been.

Anyway, he provided the ammunition for all and sundry to have a pop at anything Yorkshire, even beyond cricket and into the broader society.
 

Newby

Well-known member
Interview with the ECB Chairman on TMS during the lunch break this morning. He wouldn't comment on the Azeem Rafiq affair as the investigation is finished and the matter is completely in the hands of the CDC. However, talking about the wider review into racism in cricket which is also due to report in January he did say there would need to be a 'truth and reconciliation process' after the report is published.

He hinted that the report would be very difficult for everybody throughout cricket.

One other nugget, he intimated that the ECB feel it is very important that red ball cricket is played during August, not next season obviously, but he didn't think the hundred needed the whole of August.

We will see what transpires.
 
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